From the invasion of Russia to soaring inflation, the rising cost of energy has forced many countries to delay or scale back their climate ambitions. Suddenly, many are also looking to Canada — and its abundance of energy — for desperately needed supply.

But in the wake of yet another summer of record heat and forest fires, the need to balance climate and energy security has never been more apparent. That sort of balance — a more holistic approach to energy development — is something that Canada’s Indigenous leaders have been stressing for decades.

In this special “Best Of” episode of Disruptors, an RBC podcast, Trinh Theresa Do revisits three conversations she and her co-host, John Stackhouse, have had over the past season with some of Canada’s most thought-provoking Indigenous leaders. First up, we hear from JP Gladu, a Suncor Energy board member and executive director of the Indigenous Resource Network.

And in the second half, it’s Mark Podlasly, director of economic policy at the First Nations Major Projects Coalition, and Crystal Smith, chief councilor of the Haisla Nation and chair of the First Nations LNG Alliance — each bringing their experience and wisdom to bear in this vital discussion about Canada’s energy future.


JP Gladu has taken his extensive experience in corporate Canada to build his own consultancy, Mokwateh. To learn more about what Mokwateh does, check out his website.

The First Nations Major Projects Coalition is a collective of First Nations united to promote shared interests and gain ownership in the major developments in their territories. You can find out more here.

To learn more about the Haisla Nation and their history, follow this link. During the episode, Crystal mentions the vital oolichan fishery; to understand more, click here.

Speaker 1 [00:00:01] Hey, it’s Theresa. You know, it’s probably fair to say that the past few months have not been kind to Mother Earth. The climate change summit in Glasgow last fall was pivotal. More than 100 countries reaffirmed their commitment to take action on greenhouse gas emissions. But since then, the world has been hit by a series of shocks from the invasion of Russia to soaring inflation. The rising cost of energy has forced many countries to delay or scale back their climate ambitions, and many are looking to Canada and its abundance of energy for desperately needed supply. But we’re steeped in yet another summer of record heat and forest fires. Once again, this proves that the need for meaningful climate action has never been more important. Add to that the very real and complex challenges of balancing energy and climate security that need for balance and to embrace a more holistic approach to energy development is something that Canada’s indigenous leaders have been stressing for decades. In this special best of episode of Disruptors, we revisit three conversations John and I had over the past season with some of Canada’s most thought provoking indigenous leaders. Each plays a pivotal role in Canada’s energy future. After the break, you’ll hear John’s discussions with Mark Podlasly of the First Nations Major Projects Coalition and also with Crystal Smith, chief of the House, the First Nation. Both of them are trying to build strategies and secure buy in for an Indigenous led energy transition. But first, my interview from last fall with JP Gladu. JP is a board member of Suncor Energy, which has committed itself to becoming a net zero emitter by 2050. He’s also a principal at equity consultancy and a former CEO of the Canadian Council for Aboriginal Business. JP Welcome to Disruptors.

Speaker 2 [00:01:56] It’s really nice to be here. Thank you.

Speaker 1 [00:01:57] From 2012 to late last year, you served as President and CEO of the Canadian Council for Aboriginal Business, whose mission is to promote, strengthen and enhance a prosperous Indigenous economy. When you look back, how did the canopy address sustainable prosperity during your leadership?

Speaker 2 [00:02:17] What I feel most proud about is the growth of its programs and its presence and research. You and I both know if you don’t have great data, it’s hard to change policy. It’s hard to change thinking and to keep as a leader, a world leader in developing research by indigenous people for indigenous people to influence outcomes. I want to talk a little bit, if it’s all right, sir. One of the my roles since then, I’m the chair of the Boreal Leadership Champions, and that is a group of companies and indigenous leaders from oil, gas, mining, forestry, energy. We’re all trying to find a place and we’re developing some thought leadership with all these companies around responsible development, around Indigenous protected conservation, because we need those natural services to be able to live a stronger future, an environment to hand down to our kids.

Speaker 1 [00:03:11] Can you describe that connection between indigenous led conservation and economic reconciliation and how that might also apply to energy production?

Speaker 2 [00:03:19] For a long time we’ve been shut out of the Canadian economy. We had the fur trade which sustained our communities, and then we were told our communities were told that harvesting furs was not appropriate anymore. So, okay, well, we don’t want to live in poverty. We don’t want government handouts. So what’s next? Well, we’ll look to the mining so that a lot of our communities are in the north. So we’ll look to the extraction sectors to generate revenue, to generate income, to generate an economy. When we talk about economic reconciliation. It means that we’re generating wealth and we’re managing that wealth and we’re empowering our communities. We know that we can actually find a better balance between extraction and indigenous protected conservation areas and sustainable development and more trees. Because our natural service ecosystems provide billions, trillions of dollars that we don’t even think about when it comes to clean air, clean water. You know, think of all the health impacts that occur if you don’t have a clean environment. But we also, as an indigenous community, are having these tough conversations around, well, we’re going to transition, it’s going to take time. So oil and gas is going to be a part of our economy for years to come. That doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t be putting time and effort and resources and research into actually improving that technology. So there’s a balance to be struck, and we’re not going to find that balance without the indigenous voice. We need to be at the table every step of the way from any kind of development to any kind of protected area and developing economies around those protected areas.

Speaker 1 [00:04:52] On more practical level. To what extent might there be concern among indigenous communities, especially those who partner with big oil and gas, about developing these resources, which knowing that oil demand will not wane for a while, eventually it will wane to some degree. So knowing that that long term demand will wane along with perhaps the value of these properties, what concerns are there around that?

Speaker 2 [00:05:14] Well, I think the biggest concerns are, again, that question of balance, balance of generating economies. So we’re not poor all the time and not government handouts, but also making sure that we’ve got areas that we can rely on for our traditional activities in the clean water and the clean air. I mean, I just had my daughter visiting me for my reserve the last five days of me remote sensing and I’m on a lake. And let me let me paint this picture for you. I live on Lake Michigan. Our whole lake is protected and it’s the biggest lake in Ontario, surrounded by the Ontario borders. Beautiful. I hunt on it. I fish. I caught a beautiful speckled trout, my fly rod. This weekend I release her because she is a female and she was spawning. But, you know, we’re the guardians of the land and put us in that place so that we can continue to protect her. But we also have a lithium mine site, just not because of road access to our reserves. We have two hydro developments that we’re partners and we have a sawmill. We have old railway bed that goes to our community and we have the natural gas line that cuts across our community as well that my grandfather, one of my grandfathers, helped build. We’ve got all the resource activities there and so we’re trying to find that balance to make sure that the land that needs to be protected is protected and that we are the ones that are also becoming the equity partners and the decision makers in the way that resource projects get developed and that we also benefit from it.

Speaker 1 [00:06:34] If I can pivot just slightly so I know you wear a lot of hats and among the many hats that. Where you sit in the Suncor board. Suncor is transforming itself into a more sustainable energy producer and is targeting 2050 as the year they become net zero. What do you think about that target and what are the biggest challenges still to overcome on that journey?

Speaker 2 [00:06:56] Yeah, it’s a lofty goal. I mean, but the thing is that not only Suncor, we’ve got Imperial Central, Meg Cenovus, 90% of the oilsands producers are all committed to this. So you have more partners committing to technology, more partners committing to reducing GHG is getting better at water use, getting better at Indigenous consultation, engagement and empowerment. Strength in numbers. So I think because of that commitment with all of these companies, it is achievable.

Speaker 1 [00:07:30] And there’s still an open question on energy production at its most basic, whether it’s better to find ways to reduce the carbon emissions in traditional extraction or to shift focus to develop more renewable energy sources. And of course, it’s not just an or question.

Speaker 2 [00:07:47] It’s and it’s.

Speaker 1 [00:07:48] And so what would you say is the best path for the right mix to meet our future energy needs?

Speaker 2 [00:07:53] I think you said it’s the mix. I don’t know if anybody has a crystal ball on this because there’s so much uncertainty. We’re investing in hydrogen, we’re investing in carbon capture. We’re we have to spend more time investing in our natural capital of trees. I think it’s one of the best carbon eating machines that I know as a forester. So, so you know, companies like Suncor are investing the time and resources in those types of technologies, but we cannot rely just on one. It’s like a balanced portfolio. When I look at my RRSP or my investment accounts, I’m distributed across, I’ve got some risky investments and some of these investments that we’re exploring the technology, there’s risk, but the payoff could be amazing.

Speaker 1 [00:08:36] You often talk about a just transition. Can you elaborate more on what you mean by that?

Speaker 2 [00:08:42] Absolutely. I want to fill up this morning. You know, I live in the north. I’m a hunter and I’m 2 hours from Thunder Bay, so I have a truck. And it’s always interesting when we think about environmentalism, it’s always easier to be an environmentalist. When you ask everybody else to do the hard work, it really is. It’s it’s baffling sometimes. DiCaprio comes up to the oil sands and chastises the oil sands for for oil and gas development. When he flies around the world, is that a billion whatever boats and helicopters and they come on like, let’s be real here. But so we’re just trying so I’ll get off my soapbox. But the just transition is. Yes, yes. I mean, I sit on an oil and gas company. I also chair the boiler of champions around conservation. I took my daughter hunting and a clean environment. We need both. And the just transition is the fact that we’ve got two sides here and we’re trying to build a bridge and to meet that bridge to make sure that we can travel in a clean environment and a sustainable economy. The renewables, the batteries, the infrastructure for it, for battery cars, the wind, the solar. We just don’t have the capacity to meet world demand for energy. So oil and gas is going to be here for quite a while yet. And we’ve got to make sure that we hold corporations accountable to their targets. We need to make sure that we have a little bit more balance in the way that we develop our resource sector. It’s not perfect. It’s getting better. We see the goalposts and we’re trying to navigate between those posts and we’ve got Indigenous inclusion, that is, it’s got to get better, but it’s definitely 100% better than it was even ten years ago. But that transition is going to take time.

Speaker 1 [00:10:32] Coming up after the break, we’ll revisit a conversation John had with two B.C. indigenous leaders who are reshaping the way we approach energy development in Canada. So stay right there. You’re listening to Disruptors and RBC podcast. I’m Theresa Doerr. I would like you to know about a new weekly report from RBC Economics. It’s called Proof Point, and it provides original, timely economic insights from RBC Economics and Thought Leadership Team. Find out why businesses will continue to be challenged by labor shortages even after the economy’s next recession. Or learn how this country could help feed the world amid the food crisis and what it means for our carbon emissions targets. To explore more, visit our thought leadership. Welcome back. On today’s episode where resurfacing some of the most insightful conversations we’ve had here on disruptors with indigenous leaders on the question of Canada’s energy transition. Earlier this spring, John spoke with two B.C. leaders with a keen sense of how to build a more inclusive and sustainable energy partnership. First up, here’s John in conversation with Mark. But lastly.

Speaker 3 [00:11:48] Mark put lastly is Director of Economic Policy and initiatives at the First Nations Major Projects Coalition, which is a national collective of more than 65 Indigenous nations seeking ownership of major projects such as pipelines and electric infrastructure. He’s also director of governance at the First Nations Financial Management Board, which is leading the development of an indigenous response to the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples. Mark, welcome to Disruptors.

Speaker 2 [00:12:17] Well, thank you. I’m very pleased to be here, John.

Speaker 3 [00:12:19] I wonder, Mark, if we can start with some reflections on the impact of climate change, because you’re part of a nation and a community in South Central B.C. that has not only been devastated by climate change, but also captured the world’s attention. Maybe you can share a bit of what you’ve you’ve learned from that experience.

Speaker 2 [00:12:41] Well, we are from the carbon, which is in central interior, British Columbia, South Central B.C. and we had both of the big climate events of British Columbia hit us within six months. The first was the fire at Lytton. Lytton as one of our communities in our nation where the temperature went to almost 50 degrees Celsius, hottest temperature in Canadian history, and then the place burned to the ground the next day. And then last winter, we had the atmospheric river come through and it hit Merritt, which is also one of our nations communities. And the rivers just washed everything out. There were 38 washouts in both directions up to my community, washed away the reserve where my mother was born. It’s gone completely. And Highway eight still isn’t rebuilt. So it’s it’s been a horrific year climate wise for us.

Speaker 3 [00:13:23] And people around the world watched in horror and some said this is why we need to get off fossil fuels immediately or as quickly as possible. And yet many of the communities that were devastated by this are also investing in projects that will continue to ensure that oil and gas get to people in Canada and around the world. How do you balance what some see as a contradiction and others just see as a as a challenge between those two points of view?

Speaker 2 [00:13:53] I think what’s important to remember is that this is an energy transition. There is a point where we are going to have to stop using a lot of these fossil fuels, but in order for us to do that instantly is going to cause enormous pain. We just don’t have the renewables and in the amount we need to do an instant switch. So I think right now it’s a question of smart decisions about which petroleum based assets we will develop and use. The references you’ve made to a lot of First Nations, particularly in B.C., around LNG, LNG as a cleaner fuel than oil. And that is where a lot of first nations are putting their effort right now. So it’s a transition. It’s not going to be instant.

Speaker 3 [00:14:31] What Indigenous perspectives do we need to be more mindful of in terms of finding this balance?

Speaker 2 [00:14:37] I think to look at this is that indigenous people right now are very invested. Some indigenous people are very invested in the petroleum and the energy sector and there’s a lot of interest right now in developing sources of energy that are cleaner. And I think that’s where indigenous people, at least from the Coalition, are willing and happy to proceed. The question we have is we don’t want to be caught off guard in the development of new energy systems like we were in the past, where they are coming from our lands and our resources and we are not benefiting from that. So there’s a lot of hard questions to be asked about what’s our energy mix going to be. And then for Canadian society about what’s the role of indigenous people on whom our lands are are basically tied to these energy, either in clean energy and hydroelectricity or solar or wind or in petroleum and natural gas. There’s some tough questions that have to be worked out.

Speaker 3 [00:15:27] Tell us a bit about the the Major Projects Coalition, how it came about and what it’s trying to achieve.

Speaker 2 [00:15:32] The major projects coalitions started about six or seven years ago when 16/1 nations in northern British Columbia had an opportunity to acquire equity in a pipeline project. They then went out to try and source that equity and found that it was too expensive. The cost of capital because First Nations, the way we organized under the Indian Act, we don’t own our land, we don’t own our assets. They’re held in trust by the government. And trying to actually raise money on assets that you don’t own is a fruitless exercise. There’s just banks wouldn’t do it. So if we could get capital, it would be at the cost of credit card type rates. And it’s just just not economic. So the 16/1 nations said, you know what, this is could happen to us again, so we’re going to be ready the next time. So they formed the coalition as a service organization, 2/1 nations, to improve their technical ability to access capital and technical skills and finding people who could assist them prepare for the next deals that would come around. And it’s happened. You’re starting to see it now from those 16 we have grown to 85. The coalition does not market itself. It is all by word of mouth. And these are first nations who are being approached by proponents of major projects looking for commercial partners. And we provide this service to those communities to ask the right questions about going into those projects.

Speaker 3 [00:16:48] What sort of projects are you looking at or communities looking at?

Speaker 2 [00:16:52] There are energy projects, a lot of clean energy projects now, either in hydroelectricity or partial ownership of transmission lines. And those include the gambit of geothermal. Hydrogen is now coming up as more and more communities are being approached. Transmission lines, pipelines have come up in discussion. There’s railway discussions now about everything from via rail project in Ontario and Quebec to other projects here in British Columbia and sometimes mining companies as well. Mining companies looking to access critical minerals for net zero batteries and car manufacturers. Those are all coming up.

Speaker 3 [00:17:25] The climate transition is going to take a lot of capital. Our research at RBC estimates Canadians will need to invest or mobilize $2 trillion over the next 25 to 30 years. That’s roughly $80 billion a year or about four times what we’re investing in transition activities right now. How can we see more indigenous capital mobilize Mark and perhaps do so more quickly?

Speaker 2 [00:17:51] Well, I’m glad you noted that there is indigenous capital in this country. My community has a revenue sharing deal with a mining company in our territory and when we started to set that up, we did some research to find out how much indigenous capital is there in Canada and we found just the back of the envelope calculations at that time, about $8 billion of assets under management by Indigenous people. And it’s not in one spot. It’s it’s different settlements from either land treaties from from negotiations with mining companies or energy companies. We figure now that somewhere between 13 and 18 billion my nation has a fund right now of about 50 million. And we have the ability and the fund to make direct placements into investments that that will grow that fund. Most of these nations do. So the capital is there. The question, though, is that how how can indigenous people directly invest in these projects? I think for a lot of the financial sector, they don’t see us as Indigenous investors. The idea of being an indigenous investor seems to be an oxymoron to some of these companies who come into territories and don’t think of Indigenous people in that sense. That has to change.

Speaker 3 [00:18:54] Mark we’ve been exploring through this podcast series the incredible challenges that Canada is facing in terms of finding a balance between energy security, ensuring that we have affordable, accessible energy, and that we’re able to support other countries, especially our allies, with that while facing extraordinarily inflationary pressures and balance out with climate security and the race. And it really is a race to net zero. How do you think about these these challenges and many more from an indigenous perspective, which often suggests more time is needed if we’re to make the right decisions and we need to think generally. Rationally and not be in such a rush. How do you balance that need to really get things done in a hurry and not be wasteful in the process?

Speaker 2 [00:19:40] I bring us back to the discussion of the atmospheric rivers and the fires and Lytton that happened last summer. You’re right, we have limited time now to save the climate and that affects all of us. It’s not just indigenous people versus the rest of the country or the federal government. By 2030, we’re supposed to have shifted most of our vehicle sales 50% anyway in this country over to electric vehicles. It takes more than eight years to build a mine. Never mind power stations. We as indigenous people are in this with everybody else. So there have to be, as you said, smart decisions made. And the only way smart decisions are going to be made is that there’s a wholesome, fully engaged discussion from the beginning about what we’re going to do.

Speaker 1 [00:20:22] One woman with her finger on the pulse of her community’s needs is Crystal Smith, chief of the House The First Nation. Here’s part of John’s chat with Chief Smith.

Speaker 3 [00:20:35] Crystal Smith is the elected chief of the Hyslop people, centered on Kitimat village along BC’s northern coast. In November 2019, she was named chair of the First Nations LNG Alliance, a group committed to encouraging First Nations development of what was then a nascent liquid natural gas industry and providing employment and other sustainable benefits for BC’s Indigenous people. She Smith, welcome to Disruptors.

Speaker 4 [00:21:00] Thank you for having me.

Speaker 3 [00:21:01] I wondering if you can share a bit of the Hyslop story because it’s not a well understood story, unfortunately, across Canada. Tell us a bit about what what the community has built over the last decade.

Speaker 4 [00:21:13] One thing that I definitely think that is important for people to understand is that while we’re being a part of a new industry, that our nation isn’t new to industrial development. Overall, we’ve witnessed methanol plant, aluminum smelter, a pulp and paper mill be developed and built and operated in our territory for 20 to 50 years. And essentially we’ve sat on that on the sidelines, witnessed the destruction of our territory, our environment and our cultural resources to being active partners within a process where we had a seat at the table with LNG, Canada and Coastal Gaslink talking about what was important ties like what it means to be Heizer. Having our seat at the table gave us a huge responsibility in terms of being landlords of all of our resources and giving advice to developers and builders as to how to safely do it with minimal impacts to our environment. One of our elected leaders, Seeber Maitland, he was a chief councilor in the eighties, I believe termed the saying that we just wanted a share and a say. We wanted a share of the the wealth that was being generated. We wanted a share of the employment opportunities that were available. And we wanted to see as to how they were being built, how it was being developed. And today, I can proudly say that we’re we’re there as a part of LNG Canada, coastal gaslink and more so now as owners 51% owners of Cedar LNG with our partners.

Speaker 3 [00:22:47] Pembina And in terms of development, what has been done differently because of that share and say.

Speaker 4 [00:22:54] For an example one of our very important cultural resources to to our nation is that will again. And so the spawning time or the the time that they would come into the rivers is in between February and March. And there’s not too many other levels of government or any other entities that put a value on the ULA camp. But but it’s a huge staple of our HYSLOP identity. So in terms of the, say, LNG, Canada was doing some dredging and within that process of doing the the permit application, we worked out the issues prior to that permit being applied for so that as opposed to the permit going into the regulators and then coming back to us for four questions, it actually went along with our support when being filed and that involved no dredging during February and March when the other can could possibly arrive.

Speaker 3 [00:23:55] One of the big ideas we’re trying to explore is this challenge that Canada now faces of needing to produce more resources both for Canadians and for the world, and do that more sustainably. We have very ambitious climate targets, among other environmental goals. And at the same time, to pursue reconciliation in more and more meaningful ways. How do we do that, especially in the short timeframe that many people believe we have to reach goals like net zero?

Speaker 4 [00:24:25] Well, for one, for the Cedar LNG. Even before ESG became a thing, our team actually sat in a room in Vancouver for, I want to say, a week to go over proposals for a partner. How much money the nation would make wasn’t a huge priority. The priority was what kind of technology will you use and will you use air cooled or water cooled? We stuck to what we wanted for our environment, and we chose a partner that aligned their visions and their desires with the nation. And actually, I remember throughout that process there was one RFP that came in and that the executives would not leave the topic. And they were very adamant that the project needed to make money. If the project didn’t make as much money as they envisioned, the nation wouldn’t make as much money as we desired. And I had looked at our team and I said, I don’t think this conversation needs to go any further. And and the room kind of looked at me stunned. Our team looked stunned. And I said, there’s no compromise. And what we’re saying is that we want minimal impacts. I’m not willing to stand up in front of our community and say we chose money over our environment. And so I looked at the rest of the elected leaders and said, are you willing to do that? And the answer was no when the conversation ended.

Speaker 3 [00:25:47] You’ve said that the Coastal Gaslink project, which will transport natural gas from northeastern B.C. to Kitimat, promises. I think you use the word transformational benefits for the Haisla Nation. Can you explain what you mean by transformational?

Speaker 4 [00:26:01] You know, we think about what we’ve been able to do and being a part of a process where, you know, coastal Gaslink and LNG Canada took the time to understand and get to know who we are and why certain circumstances remain the same. And it was because of our past history with the industrial development and having proponents come in and, and learn who you are and what you want to accomplish and align themselves of of saying this is where we can help with that vision. Here is where we can help with that goal and being partners within that process and providing resources that necessarily weren’t provided before. We have the lowest unemployment rate right now. If you want to work, you can work. There’s nobody that that doesn’t have an opportunity. So that’s on one level where I’m saying it’s it’s transformational. And with its own source revenue, are funds being generated by impact benefit agreements? We now have the ability to work on behalf of our people. Our chiefs and council and our staff have that ability to create programs that actually deliver what is required and what is needed. And we’re able to prioritize what is important. Our culture and language is is a huge example. I had a meeting last night at dinner meeting and I’ve got a twin identical twin sister and I was sharing how my day started yesterday. It’s my first day back after two weeks off of work, and she shared an audio recording of her speaking her language. I’m sorry.

Speaker 3 [00:27:39] No. Take your time.

Speaker 4 [00:27:41] We grew up with our grandparents, and when they didn’t want us to know what they were talking about, they would speak our language. And hearing her speak, it gives me hope that my grandchildren will be able to speak our language and will know exactly what it means to be high. So they will learn their culture, they will learn how to harvest food, they will learn their language. And that is so important.

Speaker 3 [00:28:12] Thank you for sharing that. It’s inspiring, it’s beautiful. And also, I imagine quite challenging for as it is for any community with strong traditions around the world to preserve culture and tradition. I wonder if I can wrap up with one last question about economic reconciliation and what you think the rest of Canada needs to come to grips with. For communities like yours and leaders like you to navigate this journey.

Speaker 4 [00:28:42] It’s a process that but we have to be a part of and that it’s putting a lot of responsibility and expectations on on proponents and other levels of government. But this process internally has been long, difficult. Huge learning curves. And in terms of what we’ve been a part of. So essentially give some time because it’s not an overnight process. An entity has its shareholders and its board of directors, our shareholders, our 1900 members, and that’s just specifically Haisla. And that’s who essentially gives us our mandate of a yes or a no. And again, not all of us are the same. Some of us will be a little bit quicker and have had a lot of practice in that process. But give time, get to know the community, get to know what their goals and what their visions are.

Speaker 1 [00:29:32] This has been a special best of episode of Disruptors. Thanks again to our guests, Christopher Smith, Mark Pitt, lastly and JP Gladu. We hope you enjoyed this trip down memory lane. And a little note for our listeners. Disruptors will be taking a summer hiatus for the next few weeks. We look forward to having you join us again in the fall. Until then, I’m Theresa Do and this is Disruptors, an RBC podcast.

Speaker 4 [00:29:59] Disruptors, an RBC Podcast is created by the RBC Thought Leadership Group and does not constitute a recommendation for any organization, product or service. It’s produced and recorded by JAR Audio. For more disruptors content like or subscribe wherever you get your podcasts and visit our slash disruptors.

Jennifer Marron produces "Disruptors, an RBC podcast". Prior to joining RBC, Jennifer spent five years as Community Manager at MaRS Discovery District and cultivated a large network of industry leaders, entrepreneurs and partners to support the Canadian startup ecosystem. Her writing has appeared in The National Post, Financial Post, Techvibes, IT Business, CWTA Magazine and Procter & Gamble’s magazine, Rouge. Follow her on Twitter @J_Marron.

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