Investing in Climate Action: What Canada Can Learn from the US

Speaker 2 [00:02:07] Thank you very much, John.

Speaker 1 [00:02:08] I want to start with the Bezos Earth Fund. What is it? And maybe give us a sense of the vision behind it?

Speaker 2 [00:02:14] Well, Jeff Bezos allocated $10 billion to be spent down this decisive decade on the challenges of climate change and nature. And so it’s an exciting venture. It sounds like a lot of money and it is a lot of money. But actually, compared to the need, of course, it needs to be leveraged so that we can get real change because this is the decade that will determine whether or not we succeed or fail.

Speaker 1 [00:02:43] So is it that critical that those sorts of investments, that scale of investment be made this decade? Because if it’s made a decade hence, it’s too late?

Speaker 2 [00:02:53] Well, next decade will also be critical. The problem is, if we don’t do it right this decade, it will be impossible to do next decade. So that’s why this decade is is really absolutely critical. We we simply have to get down to net zero. When we talk about climate change and we simply must reduce the incredible loss of nature which is going on at the moment because these two problems multiply themselves and we’re heading to a bad place. We live in this highly paradoxical world, don’t we? We have never had the progress. You know, the average person today lives 20 years longer than when I was born. Poverty has fallen from 80% of the world’s population to less than 10% of the world’s population. Amazing achievements. But the price we’ve paid has simply been too high in terms of losing species, losing natural habitats, polluting the atmosphere. And we can do better.

Speaker 1 [00:03:56] And Jeff Bezos, I mean, he’s celebrated widely for a level of thinking and ambition that is all too rare in this world. Can you give us a bit more sense of how that ambition applies to climate work?

Speaker 2 [00:04:08] Well, I mean, it is wonderful, isn’t it, that wealthy people decide to give back. And it’s wonderful how a growing number of high net worth individuals are seeing these big problems that are needing to be addressed. And Jeff Bezos himself obviously has a way of thinking. I mean, he is somebody who has taken on problems that at times seem impossible and systematically gone about addressing them so that we now have the ability to do things that we couldn’t do before, having really transformed entire industries. And so bringing that mindset to these incredibly, you could say, wicked problems, solving climate change is the greatest collective action problem, as many have said sort of in the history of the world. It’s got everything that makes it difficult. It’s got into temporal inequities, it’s got current inequities, it’s got deep moral issues, it’s got massive technological issues, it’s got complex financial issues, and it’s got huge political questions that need to be resolved and all of that kind of free rider problems that we know about. And so, my goodness me, we need the best brains as well as the best money to address these issues.

Speaker 1 [00:05:27] But I guess in some ways you’re not solving that problem. Jeff isn’t solving that problem. You’re trying to find support, invest in the many folks out there who are developing the ideas and solutions. And I’m curious what kind of mindset you strive to bring to that. You know, I’ve heard the fund described as one that supports ideas and not just projects. That’s got an appeal. Not always easy to invest in ideas on, unfortunately, but it probably takes a different approach than building a company or running a project. Can you give us a bit of insight into what kind of thinking you and your team tries to bring to the challenge?

Speaker 2 [00:06:03] Well, we try to identify and monitor the roughly 50 to 70 major transitions that are required this decade and next. You know, the big blocks of we’ve got to totally transform energy. We’ve got to rethink our food system. We’ve got to think about forests. We’ve got to think about our cities. Within each of those, there are five or six transitions, which in and of themselves are pretty major. We’ve got to get. Rid of the internal combustion engine. We’ve got to shift diets towards more plant based. We’ve got to do about 50 things of that level. And what we do is we co-manage with the World Resources Institute and some others something we call the System Change Lab. And what we do with those, we monitor those 50 to 70. And we ask the question, how close are they to tipping points beyond which change becomes irresistible and unstoppable? And what are the barriers to get there? Our job is to be pretty forensic about where we go in using both money and convening power and influence Power. It could be to finance primary research. It could be to finance political advocacy. It depends on the issue, and it depends upon precisely where they are in that trajectory towards a positive tipping point. So when you mentioned we like to address ideas, this is again, is something that Jeff Bezos, you know, will say let’s not allocate funds in our efforts to issues or even to targets. Let’s allocate them to ideas that will get to those targets, that will address those issues.

Speaker 1 [00:07:46] And the ethos of the fund, primarily one of technology. That technology can and will solve this. Or do you believe that we also need culture change, behavior change, even social change, and not rely on those magic bullets of technology?

Speaker 2 [00:08:02] We absolutely and utterly require cutting edge technology and behavioral change. And indeed, as we move forward towards the end of the 2020s into the 2030s, behavioral change is going to become more important is probable that people in Canada and certainly in the United Kingdom, where I come from originally, we have reduced our greenhouse gases quite a lot. The average citizen has no idea it’s happened because they haven’t had to change their behavior. As we move forward, we are actually going to have to change our behavior. Now, technology is still incredibly important and we couldn’t have a chance of addressing climate change. You know, if you look at the cost of, say, solar energy, I mean, since Jimmy Carter put solar panels on the roof of the White House in 1979, the price of solar has fallen by 99.6%. So there’s actually been a wonderful revolution that’s intellectual and economic. I mean, even ten years ago, the entire economics profession felt that, my goodness me, it would be nice to do something about climate change, but we’re going to have to pay a cost in terms of lost competitiveness, lost economic growth. And now because of cost changes, because of technology changes, because we’ve learned about what policies work. It now turns out that actually smart, strong climate action leads to more economic efficiency. It drives new technologies, it opens new opportunities, it shifts expectations. So there is a much better future. So you get more competitiveness and you can get more growth. Now, we don’t want to be Panglossian about this. It’s not all win win. There are losers. And that’s where politics comes in.

Speaker 1 [00:10:00] Well, exactly. This is political and I mean that in a positive way because it’s about collective decision making, which is reflected in in our politics when we do it well. But we don’t do politics very well in many countries. How are you thinking about systems change in the political arena or the collective decision making arena that can perhaps accelerate some of the other investments that you’re making?

Speaker 2 [00:10:25] Well, I mean, this is a very difficult issue. We’ve certainly put quite a bit of resources already into communications. Last year, we invested quite a bit here in the United States trying to clarify the narrative about good climate action leads to a good, better economy. And we we invested in targeted messaging through various media, television, social media, basically bringing data, bringing the data and evidence and bringing human stories as to what works. I think generally the environmental movement has been trumped by more sophisticated communications and political skills from the opposition.

Speaker 1 [00:11:16] I want to shift to the idea of of of leverage. People will hear that you are investing $1,000,000,000 a year and think that’s a large amount of money. And of course it’s a huge amount of money. But the need out there for the transition is going to be kind of in the 5 to $10 trillion a year range globally. That’s how much capital needs to be invested. So we all need to be thinking more about leverage. And I’m curious what you’re seeing and learning about leverage in your own climate work.

Speaker 2 [00:11:45] Well, most philanthropy has been unleveraged, so a dollar into good health gives a dollar of good output. In good health. You know, you build a hospital, you build a school, you build whatever. Unfortunately, because the problems are so great, we need to do better than that. Now, you can leverage in several ways. You can leverage through de-risking private investment. And obviously the Royal Bank of Canada has done incredible work on that. Many investments in sustainable development need some de-risking. One could do that very directly, but one also can, if you like, do the policy side, which is also leverage. I mean, in many ways that’s the most effective leverage of all if one invests in reshaping policy. So what we try and do for every single investment we ask, well, if you like the direct impact and then what’s the second order impact that would encourage others to do it? And another I mean, another form of leverage is simply doing something that is so successful that then through the right kind of communication, it can then become irresistible. So we’re experimenting with all kinds of ways of doing it. So as an example, last year we really wanted to take on the most difficult issue of protection or conservation that exists, which is the Congo Basin, which is, you know, unbelievably precious. It absorbs more carbon than the Amazon Basin and the Southeast Asia tropical forests combined, and yet it’s under massive threat. And obviously there are all kinds of governance issues. So we gave funding to about ten different world class organizations and we said, look, the deal is each of you are very, very good at certain things. Your job is to work on those and be accountable to to us for what you do. But in addition to that, for the first time ever, let’s work as a team together. So if you’ve got the CEOs of ten internationally recognized organizations together with ourselves, then suddenly you get some European governments that say, actually, we’d be like to be part of this. And then you can go and see any head of state in the Congo basin that you want and you start sort of thinking differently about, my goodness me, if we only we could get the the head of the office, the head of the country all the way down and have something joined up, my word, that could be real leverage.

Speaker 1 [00:14:20] But that spirit of collaboration is really at the heart of leverage. Leverage isn’t just a financial equation. It’s about bringing together different forces and empowering them, but also using them together to do things that none could do on their own. And it makes me think of the Electric School Bus initiative, which I wanted to ask you about, because that’s a it’s a really neat and ambitious project aimed at decarbonizing the entire U.S. school bus fleet. Curious how you see it as a template for more collaboration, especially between public and philanthropic forces?

Speaker 2 [00:14:51] You’re absolutely right what you just said, John. I think I mean, if you look at almost any of the problems that we’re trying to deal with, there’s no one organization. There’s not even one group of organizations. It’s basically a sort of multi-stakeholder solution. And you need governments and you need, you know, NGOs, you need citizen group, corporate sector and so on. And actually the school bus situation in the United States, a very good example of that. There are 480,000 school busses in the United States. If you are a poor child from a poor county going to school in a bus in this country, because remember, schooling is a county level responsibility, you breathe air from diesel fumes. That is basically like being on the street in New Delhi. I mean, it’s really bad for health. So this has a social justice element to it, a health element. And this is one of the very first conversations that I have had with Jeff Bezos and Lauren Sanchez about when I was in my old job. And it was like, wouldn’t it be exciting if we could do something that would have a health benefit? But not only that, it would have a climate benefit, it would have an intergenerational benefit. It would it would actually also help create an industry in this country, because 96% of all the electric busses in the world were built in China. And then on top of that, by the way, during those long, hot summer months while school busses just sit there, they actually don’t sit there if they’re electric because they become a giant battery. And because 480,000 batteries, when you take electricity off the grid, when it’s cheap and plentiful, you put it back on the grid when it’s not, my goodness me, that saves dozens of power plants being built. But you can only then do it if the state level gets engaged, the school districts get engaged, the industrial and financial sector gets engaged. And so what we did, we worked on legislation and now there are, what, $12 billion that’s been put into this, something like that through the new Biden administration. And little by little, you start seeing, my goodness me, we could put this jigsaw puzzle together. Not us. I mean, you said earlier we don’t take any particular credit for this, although I think we’ve played a very good role. We’re part of, if you like, making sure that the pieces of the jigsaw puzzle sort of come together at the right time in the right kind of way.

Speaker 1 [00:17:24] This point about multiple benefits from multiple our allies is really critical and often lost on climate policy, where many people, for understandable reasons, see the objective as critical enough on its own to be the only ROI, if you will. That’s important, but that’s not necessarily the case for all sorts of people in society who have multiple needs. And the more that policies and investments can help address those multiple needs rather than be a kind of a single solution oriented one, probably the better we all are. And I’ve been seeing more of this in the biodiversity space, and I raise that because our last episode of 2022 was on biodiversity, and you and I met for the first time at the Montreal Biodiversity Conference and it was there that I got to more deeply appreciate the intersection of climate change and biodiversity and how they both lead to benefits in each realm and are interconnected in all sorts of ways. And I’m curious, Andrew, how you see those two challenges intersecting and how we can do more.

Speaker 2 [00:18:28] Well, you’re absolutely right. And by the way, your podcast edition on that was wonderful. I think that conference in Montreal was extremely important and I think combining that with COP26 in Glasgow, which for the first time sort of recognized we can’t solve climate change unless you also protect nature because it’s there’s more than one third of the solution. And the same goes the other way round. You can’t protect nature unless we address climate change, because with the way that climate change is going, we are losing nature at an even more rapid rate. And it’s really been wonderful to see just in the last 18 months culminating in in Montreal, we’ve seen this sort of willingness to think of these two as integrated. And your points about, you know, multiple benefits are incredibly important. You know, they call them co-benefits. And in many parts of the world, you know, if we want to deal with climate change, you know, don’t enter the policy door through the climate change door, enter it through health or entry through nature.

Speaker 1 [00:19:32] We’re sort of time, unfortunately. But I also was just reflecting we’re still in the early days of January, and therefore I want to seize on the New Year spirit to ask you, as you look through 2023, what your maybe greatest hope is for the year and also what your greatest fear is.

Speaker 2 [00:19:50] Well, look, this is a year where things are going to need to start improving. We got data just today on greenhouse gas emissions in the United States. Greenhouse gas emissions went up last year and things need to change. I am deeply hopeful that actions that may take a year or two to have bite, they are going to start having impact this year. I think some of the decisions made in Glasgow and in Sharm el Sheikh will start to bear fruit in the United States. Obviously with the additional funds that are being put forward. I mean, historically important. We are going to start seeing some progress. But look, we are in a hugely uphill battle. We’re in this paradoxical world where, if you ask two experts say on climate change, you say, how are we doing? And one will say, it’s amazing. You know, costs have come down 99%. We’re doing this. It’s really great. Others who say, you know, we’re a bunch of lemmings going off a cliff the end times and which how could they both be, right? Well, they actually are both right. They are both right. We are doing better and better than we are dog chasing a bus and the dog is going faster and faster. And we are saying we are running so fast is great, but the bus is accelerating away and so the dog can’t keep running faster. The dog has to get its own electric bike. You know, we need a new instrument. And I’ve got a feeling that we’re getting towards the stage where. Will accept that fact.

Speaker 1 [00:21:17] What do you think those dogs need to do in 2023, above all else?

Speaker 2 [00:21:21] We need once and for all to recognize that no individual government or even government can solve the problem. We need to sit down around the table and we need to get the real decision makers to say, okay, if the issue is electrification of transportation, what do we need to do? How do we how do we have a rational conversation? It can’t simply be preaching. It’s got to be a multi-stakeholder approach. And I hope and pray that we’re heading towards that kind of new it’s really a new governance system. And I think there are signs of hope. But, you know, there’s still a far, far more risks than most people are aware of.

Speaker 1 [00:22:08] In a site governance system going to have to come from government or from collectives of government like the U.N., or is it going to come from philanthropists, private actors, business and other coalitions?

Speaker 2 [00:22:20] I think it’s already starting to change. I mean, it is quite interesting that if you go to the United Nations General Assembly now, you’ll see a much, much richer approach. You’ll see young people. You see businesspeople. Governments have to accept it. But often governments, you know, don’t always lead. They are responsive. And so the business community, I mean, it’s albeit difficult, it is stunning when you think about it that now $130 trillion of assets under management are now committed to net zero. That would have been unthinkable. Now it’s very, very difficult to implement it. And there’s some rocky things going through right now, but we now need to come through that and say, look, you know, we know it’s difficult, but now let’s really redouble our efforts. And I’ve got a feeling that that’s happening. And, you know, I don’t want to flatter your country, but I do think actually some pretty exciting things going on in Canada right now.

Speaker 1 [00:23:20] What excites you most in terms of what’s happening in Canada?

Speaker 2 [00:23:22] Well, I think, for example, on the nature side, the announcement that Canada made on massive new protected areas, I think anywhere in history on the first day of the COP and led by First nations, very, very exciting. I mean, talk about multi-stakeholder. I mean, so interesting seeing First Nations seizing and being given authority to manage natural resources, which they are very good at, at managing. That would be just one example.

Speaker 1 [00:23:58] It’s those coalitions likely and unlikely that are keeping us moving forward as bumpy as rocky as that road can be. And I’m grateful that the Bezos Earth Fund is leading a lot of those coalitions. Andrew, And that you’re you’re a champion of so many. Thank you so much for being on disruptors.

Speaker 2 [00:24:15] Thank you, John. We love listening to your podcasts.

Speaker 1 [00:24:19] That was Dr. Andrew Steer, president and CEO of the $10 Billion Bezos Earth Fund. Up next, Ellia haTO will join us to talk about how massive investments in technology are changing the fight against climate change.

Speaker 3 [00:24:37] RBC Tech for Nature. Is there a $100 million by 2025 multi-year commitment to accelerate tech based solutions that help preserve the world’s greatest wealth, our natural ecosystem? We work with partners to leverage technology and innovation capabilities to help solve pressing environmental challenges. This program is a key element of how we are delivering on our climate strategy. The RBC Climate Blueprint RBC Tech for Nature is now accepting funding applications until February six. Apply now to partner with us and create a more sustainable future. Visit RBC dot com slash tech furniture for more information.

Speaker 1 [00:25:12] Welcome back. Today, we’re talking about how Canada can emulate the most comprehensive climate law in American history, the Inflation Reduction Act, or IRA. Our next guest is Eli Aheto. He’s the managing director of Beyond Net Zero, a global growth equity firm that invests in companies to develop innovative climate solutions. Eli, welcome to Disruptors.

Speaker 4 [00:25:34] John Thank you so much for having me. It’s a pleasure to be with you.

Speaker 1 [00:25:37] I want to start with Beyond Net Zero, and if you could give our listeners some background on what it is and what it’s all about.

Speaker 4 [00:25:44] Sure. Beyond Net Zero is the climate investing team at General Atlantic. I think folks may recognize General Atlantic as a 40 year old global growth equity firm. We’ve been investing in leading businesses in digital sectors for most of our history. And the climate initiative is one that’s fairly new in the last two years. But we recognize it as one of the most consequential opportunities in business today and also one of the most consequential opportunities in society. And so we think that there is a significant need for capital to help drive the growth of businesses that are putting out products and services that help people decarbonize either their operations, their livelihoods. You know, all sorts of activities that need to have reduced greenhouse gas emissions. And so we’re pretty excited about the opportunity ahead of us both, because there’s a real social dimension to what we need to accomplish. But we think it’s a fantastic business opportunity where there are entrepreneurs creating products and services that are saving customers money, which is really exciting, at the same time helping them reduce their greenhouse gas emissions.

Speaker 1 [00:26:48] I want to get into some of those examples and opportunities, but wonder first if we can talk a bit about the macro environment. Of course, the Inflation Reduction Act or IRA, is clearly injecting a lot of capital into American opportunities. But at the same time, we’ve got a lot of challenges and headwinds in in markets generally. How are you looking at the macro environment for investing in 2023?

Speaker 4 [00:27:14] You know, it continues to be a challenging market as an investor. Obviously, we’ve had markets falling over the last year. In some sectors we still have high valuations, which those two things don’t seem to go together. In the climate sector particularly, we’ve still seen high valuations that haven’t yet reflected where the public markets are. But at the same time, we’re seeing markets that are growing quite dramatically. So if you think about, for example, EV charging infrastructure, that’s a market that Bloomberg thinks will grow 80% year over year, and that’s despite the macro environment. More broadly. If you think about solar, the IEA has just increased its estimate of solar buildout for the next several years by 20% globally. That’s a pretty big step up in one year. Part of that is an adjustment that is a consequence of the IRA. Part of that is an adjustment that’s a consequence of energy security in Europe. And part of that’s a consequence of the decreased cost of renewable power. And so there are a lot of tailwinds that are driving forward the climate opportunity, despite what is still a volatile and in some ways rough macroeconomic environment.

Speaker 1 [00:28:22] Well, it has been a pretty rough year that maybe now in the rearview mirror a bit longer than that than a year. And for some that brings back memories of earlier clean tech wrote Wonder in your mind what makes this time different?

Speaker 4 [00:28:36] I think there are numerous differences between clean tech 1.0 and where we are today. We have now ecosystems of entrepreneurs, financiers, scientists, academics, policymakers who have experience in climate. We didn’t have that last time around. We have now technologies that very importantly are mature and are cost effective. We have now entrepreneurs focused on business models where they are delivering a cost savings to consumers. We have now financial markets that are ready, willing and able to finance businesses that have demonstrated they can be profitable at scale. And we have obviously a desire for consumers to decarbonize and mandate from corporates to decarbonize their supply chains. We have a political support that we didn’t have in the first clean tech investing boom. And so it’s a it’s a radically different environment.

Speaker 1 [00:29:34] Did IRA change your fundamental outlook? Did you wake up in August, September, whenever it hit the headlines and think, Wow, I’ve got to rethink my portfolio and my allocations? Or is it more kind of a marginal benefit than that?

Speaker 4 [00:29:47] There’s no describing the IRA as being marginal. It clearly was an overdue substantial statement around what the U.S. was going to commit to relative to climate change, and it created the incentives in several different sectors, some of which were already active. And so I mentioned distributed generation. You know, we’ve been very keenly looking at transportation, electrification. So it will create great tailwinds for those sectors. But those sectors were already moving forward. I think in things like hydrogen and carbon capture, it has changed the game. So anywhere from a 60 to 70% reduction in the levelized cost or the, you know, the cost for those technologies. And so you’re seeing right away companies announcing large scale manufacturing facilities, new hydrogen facilities. You’re seeing people announce new battery facilities, you’re seeing folks announce new lithium mining operations. And so I think the IRA has very successfully catalyzed those harder to abate longer duration and somewhat less mature technologies to make them economic and help them scale. The IRA was a game changer in a lot of ways. Now for our portfolio, I don’t think it changed what we’re doing. Mostly we are focused on mature technologies, businesses that are scaling, and so these were businesses that were successful pre IRA, but there definitively is a wind at their back with the IRA.

Speaker 1 [00:31:16] But as you look at options, as all investors are doing and will continue to do, what do you see as the needs for Canada to become a greater pull for investors like you?

Speaker 4 [00:31:28] The key for us is is business models with scale. And so obviously relative to the US, Canada has a smaller population and a smaller economy by the numbers, but it’s still a very large country and the very clear regulatory frameworks and there are a fairly sizable and very attractive sort of income levels in Canada. So we would expect that those things will yield. Businesses that are serving customers decarbonize in attractive way. You could see easily businesses that are focused on electrification of automobiles being relevant in Canada. You could see easily businesses that are financing consumers to decarbonize, being relevant in Canada. And so I don’t I don’t think that there is any business that exists in the US that couldn’t exist in Canada. It’s just a question for us to go out and find those entrepreneurs and figure out how to convince them to partner with us.

Speaker 1 [00:32:20] And that’s a great message for entrepreneurs who may be listening that the world of capital is watching and ready to move and move very quickly in in this environment. Ali, as we move towards close, I wonder if you can give us a perspective on General Atlantic for our listeners who may not be familiar with it. It is one of the great names in investing and has been for decades. What excites you most About 2023?

Speaker 4 [00:32:46] I wouldn’t have guessed that we would have the tailwinds we have today. It’s the IRA is a big tailwind. Unfortunately, energy security as a as a concept is a big tailwind. The cost of these technologies keeps coming down. And every day I meet an entrepreneur who is, I think, cracking the code around how to bring decarbonization to markets in a way that’s attractive for the customer and for the investor. It is a sea change from what climate 1.0 was. But when you see that it’s possible to both bring your customer value, your investor value and society value, that that I think is a really attractive proposition.

Speaker 1 [00:33:29] That’s a great message to wrap up with Ali and a great message to begin the year with that there’s a lot of people out there cracking the code. Thank you for being on disruptors.

Speaker 4 [00:33:39] It was my great pleasure. Thank you so much for having us.

Speaker 1 [00:33:42] That was Eli Aheto, managing director at Beyond Net Zero. And before that, Dr. Andrew Steer, president and CEO of the Bezos Earth Fund. We’re at a critical juncture as a country with so much money being put into the advancement of renewable energy and electric vehicles, Canada is bound to feel the effects. It’s up to all of us not to sit back and watch from the sidelines, but rather take bold action, show courage and in the global race to net zero, even take the lead, it’s Canada’s opportunity. Join us next time for a special live on location episode from Davos, Switzerland. I’ll be there along with business and political leaders from across the globe for the World Economic Forum. And you can bet the climate crisis will be one of the hot topics. Until then. I’m John Stackhouse and this is Disruptors, an RBC podcast. Talk to you soon.

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